26 thoughts on “What’s in a Word: Asperger’s and Hate Groups, or the Cassandras

  • January 27, 2019 at 5:54 am

    How to combat hate groups is a question that vexes me. On the one hand there is the line of thinking that says hate groups are like cancer. If you ignore them they metastasize and eventually kill you, after all the Jews ignored Hitler at first and look what happened. The other school of thought says do not give attention seekers attention, do not make a mountain out of a molehill, especially when they are fringe because bad publicity is better then no publicity. There is no one answer, each situation is different. We have no way of knowing how widespread or fringe anti autistic hate(not a rant in a moment of frustration) is. It is hard to judge which of todays fringe buffoons is tomorrows powerful group causing us significant harm.

    Today the trend is to go full bore at any and every group or person deemed haters. It is called no platforming and it involves disrupting speakers, on and offline harrassment, and getting people fired. As an autistic I find it a frighting trend. Free speech is designed to protect minority thinking and we are a minority. Upholding free speech often means protecting abhorrent thinking. This can be turned around on us. It has been said that neurodiversity is a dangerous damaging cult that stigmatize mothers, and forces kids to live broken lives ie a hate group. I can easily envision a time where no platforming neurodiversity is as popular as no platforming neo nazis, especially if gene editing us out of existence becomes an option.

    Coming off my soapbox for now what bothers me more then NT’s saying the kidnapper in the recently well publicized case or Hitler is autistic is how often autistics assume they are. I am not immune, when a mass shooting or incel attack happens the first thing I check for is if the suspect is labeled with an ASD.

    Reply
    • January 30, 2019 at 11:32 am

      When writing this, I definitely struggled. I wasn’t sure if writing this would do more harm than good, and I considered the things you talked about plus other tangents my overthinking brain brought up. Mostly, I was concerned about the pain that this would cause autistics if they did read it.

      The response has been a mixed bag. Autistic people thanking me for writing the article but unable to finish it because it was too upsetting. I understand. Also, some vitriol on social media, mostly saying that I’m too sensitive or that I only think I’m not a monster because I don’t have empathy… It’s hard to fathom that this article has over 760 direct shares to facebook (and more to other platforms), and just the one comment here.

      As always, thank you for your thoughtful, lucid reasoning. Always happy to connect.

      Reply
  • February 1, 2019 at 1:45 pm

    This is quite the race baiting, fear mongering blog you have here. You wrote this for attn for YOU. For money. Attn for you and your blog that gets no attn.

    Perhaps you should have a real conversation with an n/t that his married to an asp. YOU are not. You are not an nt and you are talking about n/t forums/facebook pages.

    Those are all sites that n/t people write on – which you are not. They are talking about their own experiences, let them.
    Fee free to post the hate from Wrong Planet- Reddit and asperg facebook pages. let me give you a few posts from people that call themselves aspi:
    Autistic Mums Safe Space- facebook – that’s a hateful place.

    [ message edited to not post private material from a safe space ]
    __________________________________________________

    msgs sent to a host of an nt page: ( Did you send these?)

    “otto”
    ww you blocked me from your forum again, i am so suprised lol

    otto
    Jan-27 Oh and dont you worry lol, want your exposure? You fucking got it, i made explicitly screenshots of my thread, including you and your friend’s comments, oh oh oh dont you go deleting evidence on me which i can use to get your silly toxic forum shut down 😉

    otto
    Jan-28 Aww being quiate now huh, scared that your little pathatic cancerous toxic hate group will go away cuz of me? Aww you’re actually scared of us, idfc what your husband did to you, for him not being social, isn’t a fucking reason to start thinking you’re a professional at something, i’m all about supporting people, and i’m the kindest person in the fucking world, but if you fuck with my kind…you fuck with ME, fucking understood?!!
    _______________________________________________________________________________

    Reply
    • February 1, 2019 at 8:56 pm

      BSTN3,

      Let’s talk about empathy. You assumed my motives, that I am doing this because I’m selfish and want money and attention. That is where your empathy led you. This is not a paid position, and I am not making money from any advocacy work. I prefer not to get this attention, honestly. It is much safer for me to stay anonymous and stick my head in the sand. I hate this and everything about it. I have been sick since starting this article because what I have seen is horrifying.

      No, I am not “otto,” but I did see the comment on the public forums when some autistic person came to your public forum to attempt to speak to everyone and make peace and extend an olive branch. He or she was told, “F off” multiple times, “We don’t want your kind here,” “Go back to your own planet,” and then later, after he or she was blocked, “Thanks for running off the alien.” It was heartbreaking and cruel.

      This is race-baiting? Well, there are tons of references to us being aliens or reptiles and NTs being humans on your site. Is that the race to which you are referring? The alien race?

      It’s quite hard having a conversation with someone who runs a forum with posts 139 replies deep conjecturing based on facial features about various murderers around the world being aspie freaks because if we rage just once, we’re dangerous and capable of murdering our families.

      And I see on your site that you have called me ragtag and the queen of propaganda… for posting the actual propaganda from other sites? You put out a clarion call to autistics in your public forum to go to my blog to condemn me for hate speech and lies. I used direct quotes from the sites, and I linked the site. That is not propaganda. That is me citing propaganda. You literally quoted me out of context without linking your source, citing half sentences and single words to paint a completely inaccurate picture of this article. This is bordering on cult-leader, Dorothy.

      So, thank you for your visit, and for your sentiment that this article is just another trashy opinion piece from another AS loonie.

      I would be willing to have this conversation if you’d be willing to quote something directly with which you disagree, and a whole sentence this time. Also, I do not know the person whom you quoted, but I’d love to see what messages came between those… the ones that you sent. I would love for you to post what happened to that person when he or she posted on your forum.

      If we are so terrible, Dorothy, why do you need to misrepresent us? If we are truly evil, lying, perverted, unempathetic people, then shouldn’t you just let our example be a testament to that? Because I will back up anything I have said. Will you do the same?

      Reply
      • February 18, 2019 at 7:43 pm

        Hey from what I have seen about the human race I am glad the most toxic amongst the tribe of neuro-typicals consider us not “human” but “alien”, that means by their logic I am more closer to being like the Vulcan or Q or Zora or Goron or a cute sphinx kitten than human. And those are all things I wish I was other than human, especially with how humans tear each other down over the damnedest of things which depresses me oh so much. Can we all just for once hug it out and eat cookies until we vomit rainbows out of our asses?

        Preach on Terra you are fighting the good fight and don’t let these “humans” stop you from being the best you you can be, because all they are doing is begetting more hatred and vitriol which both NT’s and ND’s don’t need any of.

        Reply
    • June 26, 2019 at 1:38 pm

      If you are the infamous hate monger, Btsn3, you should truly be ashamed of yourself. While I do acknowledge the condition of Aspergers can cause damage to people other than the person who has it, the stupidity and hypocrisy of your comments have enraged me and lots of other posters severely. Most of your member’s husbands (or in some cases wives) don’t truly have AS. You are extremely disrespectful and dismissive of opinions of Aspies while lambasting us for doing the same thing. You have a very ignorant way of thinking and are guilty of most of the things you accuse of Aspies of doing. I would rather be single for the rest of my life, than marry a woman that is as toxic as someone of the posters on your site!

      Reply
  • February 3, 2019 at 1:50 pm

    You invaded a forum for nt’s only. You are autistic and your spouse is. You lied and said you were n/t to get into private folders.
    You are publishing to your lowly forum that no one but autistic haters read. You are doing such a disservice to the autistic community.
    The main page says the forum is for nt’s only. Many autistics like you apparently do not understand that. Being kind has never worked in telling an ass asperger person to leave.

    >>>>>>>F off the n/t forum and the shit you are writing.
    You are the fear mongering author. You are proving our point. We will never converse with a hating autistic like you. I hope no one on the spectrum reads your hateful noise.

    Reply
    • February 7, 2019 at 6:15 am

      NT person here reading this article. It is quite obvious that Terra is not a “hateful aspie” person. It is quite obvious that she is advocating for a group of people that are being slandered by a hate group spreading misinformation about people with autism. I have many autistic people including family members in my life and none of them are unempathetic monsters. Therefore, it is quite obvious to me who the hateful person is here…

      Reply
  • February 5, 2019 at 9:34 pm

    Written by Ms. Vance:
    So, thank you for your visit, and for your sentiment that this article is just another trashy opinion piece from another AS loonie.

    In response from NTAli:
    Actually those were my words that bstn was quoting. Here, let me re-post it for you in it’s entirety:

    “And her claims (referring to you Ms. Vance) are not only misleading, but false. She claims in one of her first paragraphs 95% of our spouses are just “NT assholes” with no medical diagnosis. Totally false with no research or data to support her claim. Extremely unprofessional. ”

    This is nothing more than a trashy, masked, opinion piece from yet another AS loonie.”

    I stand by my words.

    Reply
    • February 6, 2019 at 12:26 pm

      NTAli,

      In one of my first paragraphs, I said that I would feel confident in estimating that upwards of 95% are undiagnosed (diagnosed only by the women therein). When someone estimates, that means they make an approximation based on their observations. In stating that I was estimating, that is a declaration that this is a guess. Later, I remarked that most of these men were general purpose assholes, quite neurotypical. Most means more than half.

      Approximately 1.7% of the population is autistic, and approximately 0.4% has Asperger’s. Your members are seeing AS in all kinds of places… in anyone who has negative traits. Do you not see the basic mathematical errors there? Your members are encouraging diagnostics by looking at people. They remark that it doesn’t matter if someone is autistic or if they have narcissistic personality disorder or other cluster B diagnoses. It does matter tremendously, though, for a multitude of reasons.

      If you can find a claim that is misleading or false, I will humbly retract it.

      You can believe anything you want if you’re not concerned with facts or just basic human decency. You can make any claims you want without any substantiation, including but not limited to the claim that I am a bully or a liar or misleading. All I can do is hope that the world has a higher standard of what they accept to be true than the dogma of supremacy.

      Do you not see an irony in misquoting me and making a false claim about me making a false claim? You are the one that created the false claim in the comments of the article that anyone can read and see.

      Why is this trashy? Why is it masked? What false claims have I made?

      Reply
  • February 6, 2019 at 3:43 pm

    Ms Vance,

    Your words:
    Their partners are not aspies, at least the vast majority of them. I would feel confident in estimating that upwards of 95% of them have partners who are diagnosed by no one other than themselves.

    My response:
    Completely false. Of the regulars in the group, most (meaning more than half, lol) have partners with medical diagnosis.

    Your Words:
    Approximately 1.7% of the population is autistic, and approximately 0.4% has Asperger’s. Your members are seeing AS in all kinds of places… in anyone who has negative traits. Do you not see the basic mathematical errors there?

    My Response:
    Your claim has no validity and there is no mathematical error, because there is no correlation between the Autistic population, Asperger population, and our members.

    Our group caters to the partners of on the spectrum. HENCE the name of the group. Of course we see AS, because we wouldn’t be there otherwise and we are not the general population.

    Your words:
    Your members are encouraging diagnostics by looking at people.

    My response:
    It is a FACT that dysmorphic features can identify subgroups of people with Autism with distinct underlying genetic causes.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22669539
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20473590

    Your words:
    Do you not see an irony in misquoting me and making a false claim about me making a false claim? You are the one that created the false claim in the comments of the article that anyone can read and see.

    My response:
    I did not misquote you. I simply pointed out your errors using your words. Twice now.

    Reply
    • February 7, 2019 at 11:31 am

      I applaud you. I honestly believed I would never again read anything as asinine as Moon People. You’re one chromosome away from a potato, and I love it

      Reply
    • February 8, 2019 at 4:19 pm

      No, your members do not have mostly diagnosed spouses/partners. Also, this article is about much more than your group; though, it has been your group which has reacted with such extreme mendacity and vitriol.

      Yes, minor dysmorphic features are more highly correlated in autistics than in neurotypicals. Dysmorphic features and asymmetries can be indicative of over 100 different disorders or an infinite combination of teratogenic or exogenous factors. Autism is very low on the list of correlations with facial dysmorphias. Still, looking at people who killed their families, or looking at the family members of suicide victims and conjecturing that they are autistic because they have “a look” and then declaring that the world needs to know how dangerous we are and that it’s your purpose to warn the world is inexcusable. It’s inexcusable to continue perpetuating stereotypes which are tacitly and abjectly false. It’s the same narrative that people who visit Stormfront forums will see perpetuated against Jews. No medical diagnosis needs to be guessed and implicated as being responsible for atrocities.

      Obtaining support to deal with abusive partners (aspie or not) is not the same as what your group has done (or other similar groups). Obtaining support in dealing with people who are high needs, be it partners or children, is not the same as what your group has done. Not everyone in those groups are perpetuating hate speech, but everyone who doesn’t condemn it is complicit with it.

      4 out of every 1000 people have Asperger’s, but your members posit seeing Asperger’s whenever and wherever there is someone they don’t like. They admit to seeing it everywhere and not being believed. They declare themselves the ones who truly “get it” and disparage any professionals who say that autism is not correlated with evil. And for their autistic children, they encourage horrifying attitudes and practices.

      How does one who is the object of hate speak to someone from a hate group and expect to reason or appeal to empathy? They can’t. I’m sorry, but you are wrong on this one, NTAli. The world knows this. You can get support from the world and from professionals without being invalidated and without combating one wrong with a larger wrong. You don’t have to fire indiscriminately into a crowd to call out an individual’s wrongs. You don’t have to expect that a whole group of people are representatives of what one does wrong unless they are in that group by choice. For example, Black people did not choose to be Black, and they should not all be made representative for what an individual has done; on the other hand, KKK members did choose to be in a hate group, and thus they chose to be complicit with the terms of the group. Thus, you can implicate all KKK members.

      Things like implying that we don’t have original thoughts and that we just regurgitate scripts, that we are empty and incapable of abstraction, etc. are harmful and ignorant dehumanizations, but you have gone beyond that to imply that we are the kind of people who only care about ourselves and that anyone in our worlds are just to be used to our selfish ends– that we are willing to dispose of people or even kill them if they don’t suit our purposes. That’s dangerous thinking, and it is the dogma of hate groups.

      I hope that you will one day consider that you don’t need to engage in harmful and hateful behaviors to find validation and support. I am truly sorry for anyone who has experienced abuse. I strongly condemn all abuse. I vehemently hate all abuse. Being abused and retaliating against an abuser is not something I would ever comment about or condemn. Being abused and retaliating against people who have never abused anyone in their lives is not okay. It doesn’t make any pain go away, it just scapegoats and perpetuates it. It doesn’t promote healing. It promotes an unhealthy codependence that will only prove to be unrewarding when the brain can no longer maintain the charade that was at one time providing comfort.

      Reply
      • August 21, 2019 at 12:05 pm

        PLEASE stop comparing this to racial discrimination and ethnic cleansing of Jews. I had family die in The Holocaust. This is not at all the same. The discrimination we as Jews face is based on nothing but race. Aspies DO act differently; it is a deficiency. I’m not trying to say y’all should face bad treatment, but the experiences that NTs have with Aspies are valid and should be considered. It is not at all like racism and the worst genocide in history. Be more sensitive. This is why people may dislike or avoid Aspies. What you are doing is insanely offensive.

        Reply
      • October 18, 2019 at 2:52 am

        As a Jewish autistic person who was called kike more then I care to remember as a child back in the 60s I agree there are too many Nazi comparisons because the Holocaust was uniquely evil. That said there are similarities in the reasoning and the maltreatment both groups receive.

        There is no eugenic elimination of autistics because it is not known exactly the genetics involved. In the case of down syndrome the genes are known. While down syndrome people are not being rounded up and gassed 90 percent of downs syndrome fetuses are aborted. This is eugenic elimination. There still is a lot of money being spent on finding the genetics involved with autism. Is it unreasonable to fear eugenic elimination will be done to autistics if it can be?

        What if somebody I said I don’t want Jews to be mistreated but you Jews are different, you don’t go along that Jesus is the messiah like everybody else, you guys are prosecuted everywhere you go you gotta be doing something wrong. Would you be offended by that statement? You probably would be because that is classic victim blaming. That is what you did to aspies.

        Be it anti-semites or aspie haters they hate because of a combination of actual differences and perceived differences born of negative stereotyping.

        While some hate is more damaging then others to argue with other mistreated people that your groups mistreatment is worse then their groups is known as “oppression olympics”. This is counterproductive.

        A little off topic but Jews are arguably an ethno-religion. What we are not is a race. It is the Nazis/White Nationalists that describe Jews as a race. I am not going to let anti-semites decide how I should describe myself, especially when they are wrong.

        Reply
      • October 20, 2019 at 3:51 pm

        I doubt you are the same Frankie that posted below in favor of group treatment for Aspies. I say that you have a point that AS is a known disorder, while being Jewish or black is not. However, sites dedicated to telling the world how bad people with Aspergers are, with the vast majority of their arguments being anecdotal evidence is very much hate speech, whether it is a disorder or not.
        I have been bullied and ostracized by NT’s my whole life, despite trying to be nice and polite to everyone and bending over backwards to meet NT norms. However, any argument for this is invalidating the feelings of those horrible bigots at AS Partners, especially the NT Ali poster.

        And if you don’t believe it’s a hate site, these are some direct quotes from the site (I had to stop visiting it; it was shaking my confidence and enraging me too much to continue to visit it; these people are clearly beyond reason):

        “They’re all idiots.” Referring to Aspies
        “F***ng morons” From the lovely (sarcasm) btsn3 herself
        “Aspies are all terrible people”
        “They have no conscience”
        “It’s a super form of mental illness” falsely listing symptoms of sociopathy, narcissism, and a bunch of other mental illnesses with simply anecdotal evidence.
        One woman even argued they shouldn’t pursue therapy for AS because it would cause unsuspecting NT’s to become entangled with them.
        Yep, you can’t make this stuff up.
        I can’t stop these people from posting, as wrong and awful as they might be. But I sure as hell can speak out against it. And that’s what I will continue to do, in hopes one day Aspies are accepted by society.

        Reply
  • February 6, 2019 at 7:18 pm

    I am a neurotypical man. I know Terra. She is not a monster–not by a long shot. We are wired very, very differently, but I enjoy her company. She is kind and she definitely has empathy. I could go on and on, but suffice it to say that group generalizations reflect intellectual laziness. Everyone is an individual with a unique set of traits. I’ve met plenty of neurotypical jerks. Terra is an aspie. She is definitely not a jerk.

    Reply
  • February 6, 2019 at 10:18 pm

    Terra I’m not sure if these hateful people are mentally unstable or just that hateful. It’s flabbergasting. Thank you for your strength to fight the good fight.

    Reply
  • February 7, 2019 at 11:59 am

    It’s humorous that they call themselves ‘normal” and “earthly” when they could match with Plutonian androids on Tinder.

    Reply
  • February 7, 2019 at 3:32 pm

    So, here is the thing– correlation does not equal causation. Yes, there are aspies who are abusive assholes. There are also NTs e who are abusive assholes. Those on the spectrum do not have a monopoly on being a bad person.

    Also, there are crossover traits between aspergers and several other conditions, such as BPD and NPD. It is quite possible to lable someone an aspie who is actually a narcissist. But, even with petsonality disorders things aren’t one size fits all. There is a huge spectrum of presenting symptoms in almost all neurological/mental illnesses.

    I am truly sorry for anyone who has suffered abuse at the hands of an aspie. But, I’m sorry for the abuse, not the neurodivergency. To label all aspies as abusive and incapable of empathy is simply wrong. To say we can’t be good parents, for example, is incredibly inaccurate and hurtful. I am an aspie and I am also an extremely gentle, loving parent and caregiver. The world overwhelms me at times, but I deal with it and persevere. I am well educated and hard-working and very loving. Autistic hate groups don’t hurt me, because I know who I am. But, there are plenty of vulnerable people they DO hurt.

    So, I wish we could all look at character flaws and abuse on an individual basis instead of trying to blame an entire group of people. I’m aware this is pretty much a pipe dream.

    Oh, and Terra is one of the most giving and empathetic people I’ve ever known. The way she truly hurts for other people is heartbreaking and beautiful.

    Reply
  • February 7, 2019 at 4:09 pm

    I have no idea of why your relationships stink but it is never ok to demonize a group of people unless the very definition of the group revolves around evil ACTIONS such as serial killers.

    If you started a group such as “heartless blacks” or “predatory homos” and you were found out you would be publically shamed and forced to resign from your job. Severely intellectually disabled people have difficulties forming and keeping relationships, they are very high maintenence or “burdens” to be politically incorrect. If you started a group “heartless retards” or a site where people complain about what abusive burdens they are and were found out you would be publically shamed, people would boycott you and worse.

    But people have no compunction about starting groups dedicated to talking trash about ALL “Aspies”. Neurotypicals are in part defined by not having deficits in empathy. Can you use your empathy skills to see why we are PO’ed about this double standard?

    Reply
  • February 13, 2019 at 6:45 pm

    Wow that was an eye opener.

    Not often you get to see such misplaced discriminatory hate of people with a disability right there in the open, quite useful to have it out there for all to see and point towards and shine a light on. Especially so for those of us with Aspergers who have had the pleasure of covert abuse from those who prefer to make OUR cognitive difficulties all about them.

    It takes a special sort of convoluted logic or perhaps solipsis to convert a persons cognitive dysfunction and turn it into a deliberate act of withholding or imagined personal attack.

    If as a neurotypical person you find living with Aspergers to be unbearable and filling you with hate and resentment then leave. People who are Aspergers don’t have that privilege available to them.

    Also people with ASD/Aspergers do have empathy otherwise we would not have always been late home from school after rain, due to rescuing stranded worms from rapidly drying pavements, amongst other things. Maybe our empathy doesn’t work the way you want it too, or present the way you expect it too, but that does not mean it is absent.

    I’m also in a relationship with a fellow Aspie, nine years now and both very happy, liked the bit about no humour being too dark, very relatable, laughter is the predominant mode of interaction that we have, interspersed with extremely long and blissful silences.

    NT’s who talk a lot of shit about Autism taught me the value of silence, I thank them for it. 😉

    Reply
    • February 13, 2019 at 9:28 pm

      Frankie,

      You are a breath of fresh air… you want a writing gig? 🙂

      Reply
  • February 17, 2019 at 6:27 pm

    Interestingly, from an aspie perspective, I am bullied and belittled and not listened to every single day. And yet, no empathy monster that I am, seem to have the strength to STILL not treat a disabled class as though they aren’t human.
    Keep on, dear, and the whole community will stand with you. I certainly am.

    Reply
  • June 25, 2019 at 4:45 am

    Thank you for writing this. I thought the same things when I came across these “support groups”. I actually wrote the the owner of the one and told her what I thought…haven’t gotten any response yet lol.

    Reply
  • June 26, 2019 at 1:46 pm

    I know I am a little late to the party as it were, but thank you to responding to these horrible sites and acknowledging the contradictions. This world was designed for neurotypicals; however, they claim that they are innocent victims who are oppressed and people with AS are socially successful bullies. It is reassuring to know that most people dismiss these horrible women’s claims as inane idiocy.

    One woman claimed that no one believed her and dismissed her anti-AS opinions, yet it in the same post said that if anyone claimed that there Aspie is different “That’s nonsense.” We will keep up the good fight as yes for an Aspie it is a fight to be accepted and fit into society, although these terrible people claim the other way around is true.

    Reply
 

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