Working with Stress, Pain, & Illness: An Interview with Bob Stahl, Ph.D.

By Elisha Goldstein, Ph.D.
August 14, 2009

Today I have the honor of interviewing Bob Stahl, Ph.D., a longstanding Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) teacher, co-author of A Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction Workbook (New Harbinger, February 2010), the audio CD Mindful Healing: Working with Change, Forgiveness, and Lovingkindness, along with 12 others Mindful Healing CDs and a Qi gong DVD. He is also a mentor, colleague, and friend. He has helped thousands of people rediscover a sense of peace and balance in everyday life.

Question: Bob, what words of wisdom could you give people out there who are currently struggling in life with stress, pain, or illness?

It can indeed be very difficult when we face stress, pain or illness. What helps me is to open to the experience of my suffering rather than putting energy in resisting it. When I acknowledge my feelings rather than suppressing them, I feel more freedom. I believe there are opportunities here to develop deep wisdom if we can work with our suffering from a mindfulness perspective. The Buddha talked about the The Five Remembrances that we cannot escape from:

1. I am of the nature to grow old. I cannot escape growing old.

2. I am of the nature to have ill health. I cannot escape having ill health.

3. I am of the nature to die. I cannot escape death.

4. All that is dear to me and everyone I love are of the nature of change. I cannot escape being separated from them.

5. My deeds are my closest companions. I am the beneficiary of my deeds. My deeds are the ground on which I stand.

These remembrances are powerful to reflect upon and I try to contemplate them every day.

May we open into our fears so that we may find our hearts, Here are some wise words from Jennifer Welwood in her poem “Unconditional”:

Willing to experience aloneness,
I discover connection everywhere;

Turning to face my fear,
I meet the warrior who lives within;

Opening to my loss,
I gain the embrace of the universe;

Surrendering into emptiness,
I find fullness without end.

Each condition I flee from pursues me,
Each condition I welcome transforms me
And becomes itself transformed
Into its radiant jewel-like essence.

I bow to the one who has made it so,
Who has crafted this Master Game;
To play it is purest delight -
To honor its form, true devotion.

Question: What are a couple of your favorite quotes that inspire mindfulness?

I love this quote by Viktor Frankl:

“Between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space lies our freedom and power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and freedom”

The Bloom of the Present Moment
-Thoreau (Walden)

There was a time when I could not sacrifice the bloom of the present moment to any work, whether of the head or hand. I love a broad margin to my life.
Sometimes, in a summer morning having taken my accustomed bath. I sat in my sunny doorway from sunrise till noon, rapt in a reverie, amidst the pines and hickories and sumacs in undisturbed solitude and stillness, while the birds sang around or flirted noiseless through the house, until by the sun falling in at my west window, or the noise of some traveler’s wagon on the distant highway, I was reminded of the lapse of time.

I grew in those seasons like corn in the night, and they were far better than any work of the hands would have been. They were not time subtracted from my life, but so much over and above my usual allowance. I realized what the Orientals mean by contemplation and the forsaking of works.

Question: One of events people hold most fear around and have difficulty with in our culture is death. How can mindfulness help us with that?

To answer that, I would like to share an important teaching I heard from my late teacher, Hlaing Tet Sayadaw, on how to die. In 2001, I visited my old teacher in Burma (age 93 at the time) and on the last night of my stay I asked him “what does it look like at age 93, at this vista in your life, to know that death is potentially so close?” I also acknowledged to him that there was no guarantee that we would be alive 5 minutes from now - since that death could come at any moment to any of us. He looked very lovingly at me for a long time and then asked me with a gentle smile whether I was afraid to die? His question surprised me and I said a bit shakily, “Yes, a little but that I also aspired to die with my eyes open, and that I didn’t want to miss it.” Sayadaw again looked at me with tenderness and said, “You should meditate everyday!”

I then asked Sayadaw if he was afraid to die? Again he smiled and looked directly into my eyes and said “no.” I then asked him what was his plan, what was he going to do when death approached? How was he going to work with it? Again he just stared at me for the longest time and then lovingly and boldly said, “If I see something - seeing, seeing. If I hear something - hearing, hearing. If I smell something - smelling, smelling. If I feel something - feeling, feeling. If I taste something - tasting, tasting. If there are thoughts - thinking, thinking. I will be mindful and so should you!”

I was deeply moved with that answer and felt as if I had been blessed! Hlaing tet Sayadaw died at the age of 98, in 2006!

Question: Can you give an abbreviate version of steps you bring people through in your CD Mindful Healing in Working with Change, Forgiveness, and Lovingkindess?

1. Love yourself, forgive yourself - this is a great gift. We live in a world with an unnamed epidemic of the lack of self-compassion.

2. Love your Benefactors - those that have really looked out for you and guided you to being a better person.

3. Love your Near and Dear Ones

4. Love Neutral Ones

5. Forgive others or at least neutralize resentments for they are a thorn on your side or like a rock in your shoe.

6. Love all Beings

May we all experience reconciliation. May we use our own hindsight wisdom that now understands how our pain was fueled in the past by our unawareness and fear and that of others who may have caused you pain. May we all find the gateways into our hearts and may we be at peace.

Elisha Goldstein, Ph.D. is a Clinical Psychologist and conducts a private practice in West Los Angeles. He is co-author of A Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction Workbook (New Harbinger, February 2010) Check out Dr. Goldstein's acclaimed CD's on Mindful Solutions for Stress, Anxiety and Depression, Addiction and Relapse Prevention, and Success and Stress Reduction at Work -- "They are so relevant, I have marked them as one of my favorites on a handout I give to all new clients" ~ Psychiatrist. He also current has a FREE Mindful Companion EBook: Top Mindfulness Quotes and How They Can Support Your Mental Health. If you're wanting an interactive program to find relief from anxiety and stress, check out Dr. Goldstein's progressive online behavioral change program in Aliveworld. If you're wanting to integrate more mindfulness into your daily life, sign up for his Mindful Living Twitter Feed. Dr. Goldstein is also available for private psychotherapy.